"How can I found a party, organise it? I don't have the power to do it, I don't have the means. I can offer input and ideas." This was said by Beppe Grillo on Pulp Podcast.
Speaking about the M5s, he said it is now "a normal party." "I was ousted, that's a fact. But I have no regrets – the Movement is now something else, in the hands of Reverend Jones, the man who whispered to technicalities, people stirring around in a movement whose only progressive quality is progressive paralysis."
"The Movement was meant to be compostable, not biodegradable. I feel posthumous to myself while still alive – everything I was saying 20 years ago has yet to arrive here, that's the discomfort."
With politics, he continued, "I lost a lot of money, some of my health, part of my family, because they were never in agreement. We started with Casaleggio. Then, when Casaleggio was gone, I was left somewhat adrift. Then came Di Maio, very capable, for goodness' sake, but… Then I became the guarantor, which counted for almost nothing. The situation evolved. Casaleggio and I never stood as candidates and never even thought about it. We founded the Movement on the feast day of Saint Francis."
"I did five Festivals with Baudo," Grillo added, "I lived a whole life alongside him, they make a programme about him and I'm not in it. They present the David di Donatello awards, which I won, and I'm not included in the list of winners. Gino Paoli gives his last interview of his life, he and I toured together, we were very close friends, he gives an interview and Cazzullo asks him about Grillo, he speaks very highly of me, but they cut the answer. So I think there is a little manoeuvre underway to erase my name from memory."
During the interview he also spoke about his son Ciro. "He is going through," he said, "a somewhat particular period, of enormous difficulty, which he is working through. He graduated with 110 with honours, he has started a family, a wonderful daughter, a wife, he is studying to become a criminal defence lawyer and to proclaim his innocence to the world – he wants to defend himself and declare his innocence."
And on Vannacci: "Thinking is shrinking a little, today intelligent people hide, they are afraid to engage. Vannacci… his future lies in stupid questions, with a subtle undercurrent of hostility. He is like a transfer sticker – the more you spit on it, the more it sticks."
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